[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IxG96wpx60&feature=player_embedded]
From Stand Firm in Faith
Any number of things madden me about this:
1. If Jesus is a 'mechanism' for Schori - she ain't a sister. She's just not. If Jesus is incidental to the identity of 'God' she's got the wrong god.
2. Apparently Schori looks to fruits of the Spirit in religious teachers to demonstrate their closeness to God. But then for 'conservatives' to insist on the confession of Christ as Lord amounts to works.
3. Her arguments are about the Abrahamic faiths - but just how does the Dali Lama fit into this? Is he an anonymous Abrahamite? Just who is the 'God' who's in charge of this 'salvation'? Apparently he's not even as specific as the God of Abraham. Apparently His identity just isn't important.
But one other thought:
4. I believe we Evangelicals are a bit hamstrung when it comes to answering Schori whileever we remain unclear that Jesus just is the God of Abraham. When our own reasoning also runs along the lines of "Jesus is essential for us, but not for them" our opposition to this teaching will not be as strong as it should be.
Just a thought.
.
Crackers! She even got an applause!
I can understand how they could get sucked in though. It wasnt until very recently I would open the bible to check on a teaching. So I guess if the person preaching could present a logical argument, I would believe them. I dont think I was the Lone Ranger here either!
I've just finished studying Genesis for the first time and I know that ALL nations would be blessed through Abrahams decendants (Including Hagar and Ishmael). But do you think that Abraham knew how the nations would be blessed?
Good question - there was certainly an element of mystery as to the mechanics of *how* salvation would be offered to Gentiles (see Eph 3:1-6). But the Who was never in doubt.
The short answer to your question is 'through the Seed' (Gen 12:7 - cross ref Gen 3:15 and Gal 3:16).
Genesis 22 is also an incredible portrayal of the cross such that people are saying for generations afterwards: 'On this mountain (near Moriah) the LORD will provide Himself the lamb (for an atonement sacrifice)' (22:14).
And of course the LORD who Abraham meets was Jesus (sometimes called 'Word of the LORD', sometimes called 'God Almighty', sometimes called 'Angel of the LORD', sometimes just called 'LORD'.) Abraham didn't trust some abstract 'God' and Jesus comes along later as a complicating nuance to simple Abrahamic faith.
In John, Jesus makes it clear that Abe's trust was in Him (John 8:56-58). To be a true child of Abraham is to do what Abraham did - which was to rejoice in Jesus. Jesus was the One Abe met and trusted. The whole point of that chapter (and John's gospel more broadly) is to say that all people (Abrahamites included) must trust Jesus in order to know God. They don't even know God if they don't recognize Jesus, and this is not an argument simply about AD believers, John brings in Abe and Moses (ch5) and Isaiah (ch12) to show that they too trusted Jesus. If you don't know Jesus, you're talking about a different god no matter how much you claim descent from Abraham.
Abraham knew enough to know that Jesus wasn't part of the fine print or the unknown mechanics by which he was saved - Jesus was the Saviour He trusted.
Thanks. I can actually say with honesty that you make sense to me! God, Jesus in this case, was always very clear about who he is. "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob"
But I'll admit that I still get a bit confused between God the Father and The Lord or Anel of the Lord and stuff. For example: it was God the Father that fed His people manna in the desert, the Angel of the Lord fought for them etc. Getting there though.
Woops...fix the above typo......Angel of the Lord......I definately should spell check before posting...very embarrasing!
The whole chapter's great, but I love these verses from Isaiah 63:
9 In all their distress He too was distressed,
and the Angel of His Presence saved them.
In His love and mercy He redeemed them;
He lifted them up and carried them
all the days of old.
10 Yet they rebelled
and grieved His Holy Spirit.
So He turned and became their enemy
and He himself fought against them.
Glen, I agree with you on that whole chapter, and especially the verses you quoted here. Powerful pictures, all the way through.
The sad thing is that everybody clapped.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3076/2356494608_686cfe1685.jpg?v=0
more from the Bishop
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/religion/post/2009/07/68494086/1
Dan,
http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cehd/insideout/question%20mark.jpg
We had a bishop here who was saying the same sorts of things, ca. 1989. I'm sorry to say that I felt I had to leave the New Zealand Anglican Church because of her views.
Oh dear.