http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLy88cB3gCQ
1) How does Piper square his love of Jonathan Edwards with his own pre-mill and credo-baptist theology? Is there anywhere where he talks about parting company with Edwards?
2) Does anyone see the irony of two young guns bumping fists behind Piper just as he lays into the dumb guys that surround Wilson? Or was that irony intended by said young guns?
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1. I'm confused about the point of your first question. I thought John Piper was speaking about Doug Wilson's theology?
Concerning Edwards-- Is there something about the stated beliefs of Edwards or Piper that you find to be so incompatible with Scripture that you suspect one or the other is not a true believer? I'm just curious about the thoughts that prompted your question...
2. I'm not sure whether the irony was deliberate, but it was not lost on me. Personally, I respect Mr. Piper and have appreciated much of what I have heard him preach. I have no idea who the guy on the left is, but I have trouble taking seriously the one on the right. I hope it's alright that I keep my reasons to myself.
Heather
Hi Heather,
No I'm certainly not calling into question whether Piper or Edwards are true believers or anything like that. It's just he said that Wilson was wrong in the ways you'd expect a Presbyterian to be wrong and I was wondering whether anyone knew places where Piper interacts with such Presbyterianism. We know he *loves* Edwards - yet Edwards was paedobaptist and postmill. I was just wondering whether Piper ever says "And here is where I part company with my beloved Edwards." It would just be interesting to hear what he says on that. That's all.
I know what you mean about 2!
God bless,
Glen
with regards to 1, Calvin never openly criticised Augustine. He never said Augustine is wrong, just quoted him and left it vague who said such a thing. I can't, however think of a time when Piper criticised Edwards, even indirectly like that. When Grudem's baptism wars started, Piper affirmed Prebyterian friends (Lig Duncan and RC Sproul, IIRC) and said that it was a great shame that he can have them preach, but can't let them into membership as they have a wrong view of baptism, so he's ecumenical when it comes to that, and probably doesn't want to tread on toes too much, by saying why he's a historic premillenialist or a credo-baptist (though he did tread on toes by not having a dispensationalist on the panel for his upcoming (I think) discussion on the millennium). My spell checker wanted to turn premillenialist into post-millenialist - LOL!
with regards to 2, they spotted the irony that they were young guns around Piper (one's his assistant, the other his host) and then bumped fists - note that Driscoll has a little look and giggle before doing it.
For information purposes, the guy on the left is Matt Chandler (http://hv.thevillagechurch.net/staff/lead-pastor).
Hi Glen,
Piper very shortly parts ways with Edwards in his Ask Pastor John stuff at:
http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/AskPastorJohn/ByTopic/25/4103_Do_you_benefit_from_reading_authors_that_you_dont_always_agree_with/
But it is only really brief.
Thanks Jeff,
Yes that's the sort of thing I'm looking for - but expanded. Just think it'd be interesting.
all this Mark Driscoll stuff its almost becoming an obsession!!
next you will be fist pumping behind Driscoll fist pumping behind Piper!!!
Now that would be ironic!
I'm not a big Piper fan, at all.
His denial of the Sacraments and his emphasis on the self, and conjuring up feelings and sincerity (where there is none), takes the onus off of Christ and places it back on us.
As for Doug Wilson, I plead ignorance.
Don't ask how I found this & why I'm commenting in an ancient thread (!) but Piper does comment briefly on Edwards' post-mil here to Wilson from 57:00 onwards.
http://www.desiringgod.org/conference-messages/an-evening-of-eschatology
You might already have watched that video but, if not, I'd recommend it.
Are you post-mil, Glen?
Btw there's an interesting moment at 1:53:00 where they each have to say what the strongest argument against their view is.
With love from a credobaptist, a-mil brother in Christ ;)
Hey, yes I did watch that thanks. I'm only post-mill in Advent - all those cosmic king passages make me rethink (Ps 72; Isaiah 9; Micah 5). I'm usually a-mill again by new years.
So fickle ;)
On an unrelated note, you heard about 'From heaven he came & sought her'?
I know you're a fan of the Torrance brothers (I've got a few of their books on your recommendation!), and it's the brothers that act as some of the main sparring partners for the writers in that book. Along with Barth, I think. But you hold to particular redemption/definite atonement, right?
I'm with Calvin:
"We must understand that as long as Christ remains outside of us, and we are separated from him, all that he has suffered and done for the salvation of the human race remains useless and of no value for us." (Institutes, III.i.1).