In previous episodes we have thought about:
1. Introduction. Six kinds of atheism
2. Six things that atheists get right
3. Six things that atheists miss
In this final episode on atheism we tie up some loose ends. In particular we address six hot topics in engaging with atheism:
- Don't believers just believe in 'fairies at the bottom of the garden'?
- Who made God?
- Don't miracles break the laws of nature?
- Doesn’t science rule out God?
- What about Evolution?
- Surely Christians reason in a circle?
A couple thoughts:
On Evolution:
I don't think this is necessarily fair to the broad spectrum of what a general theory of evolution is. I know there was limited time but there are people out there (me included) who believe in a historical Adam, but also in macro-evolution as the outworking of God's creation. If you don't think this jives with the account in Genesis as more than allegory, check out John Walton's work "The Lost World of Genesis 1".
I'm right on board with you that there has to be a historical Adam to make sense of what Paul's talking about in Corinthians. And also right along with just presenting Jesus without getting bogged down in a macro-biology level.
On reasoning in a circle:
I see what you're saying, and I'm hesitant to go along. The first thing that popped in my mind was that this sounded like the Mormon argument for its own validity. They teach that the Book of Mormon will stir a "burning in the bosom" which reveals this truth. If it doesn't after having been read, you're redirected back to the book until you do.
John ends his gospel by saying he wrote all he wrote so that everyone may know that Jesus is the Christ. I'm not a rationalist who's going to bench on a neutral human reason. However to compare to the Scientific Method, which has its own criteria in its own common reality of shared sensory data, is not a good way to argue forward. Somehow John even assumes, from a written word, a written 'Good News', the reader can see, even if he doesn't understand what he sees (Paul in Romans 1).
Again, it was a short program, so perhaps that's why it sounds fideistic.
Cal
Thanks Cal, always helpful to get your feedback.
When you say historical Adam, do you mean that he was the first man and father of the human race?
On the circular reasoning point, that was a weak part of the podcast. I guess two other things come into play in terms of the Bible self-authenticating... One is the internal consistency of Scripture, the other is its explanatory power (i.e. Lewis's point about believing in the sun not just because he sees it but that, by it, he sees everything else).
At the *very* end of the day then the authentication of Scripture must come from God Himself speaking (I seem to remember some Latin that Calvin uses... Dei loquentis persona or something??). But although that's the ultimate authentication, it's not the only and I should definitely have given the other kinds.
That's what I mean when I speak of Adam as a historical person. However it must be stated that the story of Genesis is not just a newspaper account of events that happened. It's history, but charged with symbolism and allegory. Even Adam, according to Paul, was a type of the one who was to come.
I don't want to get into it too much, but macro-evolution does not preclude Genesis and vice versa. What is really at issue is teleology.
Funny enough, I thought about quoting the same bit from Lewis in my comment. God speaking is not just a funny emotional feeling tickling the heart, its more like eyes opening. Or, as per one of your favorite themes, Lazarus waking up in a tomb! And to the voice of his king and friend no less!
Cal
Thanks Cal, I always learn lots interacting with you.
I wouldn't argue to creationism from Genesis, but from 1 Corinthians 15. If death really came through Adam...
And if Jesus really answers Adam's fall in that cosmic way...
Certain things follow that, for me, involve the rejection of death/struggle as a creative engine prior to Adam. But we can talk about that another time if you like :)
Having grown up (or at least reached the age of majority) in the '90s, I'd have to go with Fountains of Wayne. They had one big hit ("Stacy's Mom"), but never anything else.Of course, much better was their song "Red Dragon Tattoo" and their cover of Britney Spears' "Baby One More Time."