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A true baptism?

Just watched The Tudors (episode 4, series 2).  Baby Elizabeth was baptized.

Now here's my question.  The triune name was pronounced over the child and it got wet.  Was that baby (the 'actor' not the historical figure) baptized?  I'm not hugely up on sacramental theology.  What would the Roman Catholic Church say?  Luther?  Calvin?  What about a covenant objectivist FV type position?

Just wondering.


6 thoughts on “A true baptism?

  1. Marc Lloyd

    No. There was no baptism since they were all pretending, everyone knew it etc. Likewise, the actor is not married to the actress etc. Speech act theory to the rescue again.

  2. glenscriv

    Thanks Marc.

    That's what I thought. then I thought - the baby didn't know it was pretend (which is slightly different to actors marrying) and then the thought that prompted the post: Might there be someone with an 'objective' enough view of these things to say 'the efficacy is in the word even if it were spoken by a devil' so the baptism stands no matter what the intentions of the baptiser. (then they'd have to deal with all the relevant similarities / dissimilarities between an actor and a false teacher).

    anyway - I agree with you.

  3. Grant

    No. Only a believer can be baptised. Scripture calls for us to believe and be baptised. Nowhere in scripture does it make allowances for any other way.

    So Baptism is by believers believing the gospel and being baptised by emersion everything else can not be called baptism.

  4. Glen

    Hi Grant,

    No-one denies that the saved need to believe and be baptised but turning this into a sequence is at best an over-reading of the texts and at worst a denial of 'faith alone.'

    I'd be interested to know if you think I'm baptised. My parents were influenced by baptists around the time of my birth and so left it to my choice. I was baptised aged 14 on a profession of some kind of faith but I'm not at all sure I was born again. Do I need to be baptised (again)?

    (Welcome to the blog by the way :)

  5. Brian Midmore

    Is not receiving communion a way of saying 'I am committed to Christ as his disciple and I own baptism, it is for real'. Some people rebaptise themselves in the shower everyday. At Christ church we repeat our baptismal vows on Holy Saturday and the priest splashes us with Holy water. So if I was'nt baptised as a child I am now! Just get in that shower in faith brother.

  6. Si

    I'd argue that the Church needs to recognise the baptism as one for it to be one. And I highly doubt it would be seen as one.

    Lets say that, aged 18 or more, she comes to faith and seeks confirmation or whatever (we'll ignore those credobaptists who'd demand re-baptise as they don't view infant baptism as valid) - I can't imagine a Lutheran, Reformed, Roman Catholic or Anglican church viewing 'an actor said the words, pretending I was Princess Elizabeth, and splashed me with water' as a valid baptism.

    Also, on the unworthiness of ministers, Article XXVI and similar (eg Lutheran) notions need to be counter -balanced by Article XXIII and similar - as the Actor was almost certainly not ordained to administer sacraments (AFAICS, the Anglican church wouldn't view someone baptised by a Roman Catholic priest as not baptised, which is a key reason behind Article XXVI. Mormon/JW baptism wouldn't count as not Christian baptism).

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